The Sundering of the Community - UB Anet's Double-Edged Sword

[SotiCoto]

Originally Posted by cebalrai

#1 - If you died on that mission, well you were rank 0 or rank 1 in Norn. And you played poorly. So you have no point here.

Firstly... during Blood Washes Blood, the shrine bonus is automatically Rank 10 Ursan Blessing... And that I was able to play poorly demonstrates that thought IS needed. Point made. Thanks.

#2 - Ursan stays on indefinitely unless you stop attacking and let it run out. So you have no point again.

Only that you're wrong. I was playing a Sin (with 13 Critical Strikes AND Zealous Daggers) for heck sake... I was however dealing with energy-stealing mesmers and sometimes large gaps between groups of enemies.

#3 - You agree with me here.

And? You seem to think there SHOULD be some challenge to using Ursan Blessing (which by definition is in there to counter challenge). I think that whether you're challenged or not should be a matter of choice; NOT enforced.

#4 - Okay, if you're *really* trying to be stupid, you will mess up. Got it.

I wasn't trying to be stupid... I just got carried away. I got rampage-happy and wasn't paying attention. I learnt from my mistake.

#5 - I was unclear. I meant skill as in aptitude, not skill buttons.

Leave that to PvP. PvE can be beaten by correct planning and applied elbow-grease.

#6 - Not talking about PvP. Your point is irrelevant. But 8 are you suggesting that 8 bears in PvP wouldn't be damn effective? Ping a target, drop 1000 armor-ignoring damage on a target, repeat in 3 seconds. And everyone on your team has 800 hps and nice armor (plus knockdown interrupts, etc). if you think this wouldn't be effective, you're a fool.

You demonstrated for me why it isn't irrelevant.
And yes, I'm saying that 8x Ursan Blessing could be beaten quite easily by an experienced PvP team. People at least have the reactionary ability to see what is happening and prepare for it.... which in this case would just mean a bit of energy denial... immunity to knockdown... protective spirit etc. It isn't THAT awesome.

#7 - It's happening with increasing frequency.

Where?
Gate of Anguish American District 5?

[cebalrai]

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Firstly... during Blood Washes Blood, the shrine bonus is automatically Rank 10 Ursan Blessing... And that I was able to play poorly demonstrates that thought IS needed. Point made. Thanks.

That mission is tailored to the fact that people will be r10 Norn. Generalizing by saying that UB is therefore needed in GW is nonsense.

[YunSooJin]

Why the hell are people complaining about Ursan Blessing?

I used it for awhile and stopped.. it's kind of limited, no real disables..*meh*.

[Avarre]

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

And yes, I'm saying that 8x Ursan Blessing could be beaten quite easily by an experienced PvP team. People at least have the reactionary ability to see what is happening and prepare for it.... which in this case would just mean a bit of energy denial... immunity to knockdown... protective spirit etc. It isn't THAT awesome.

Yeah, and D/Mos were easily beaten by experienced PvP teams. Remember, everyone?

What is the point of this post? None more than the point in the post I posted a point on!

[Mineria]

Can't see the difference in looking pvx wiki up for the DoA bar combo and UB.
Oh yeah there is one difference, everyone can bring the skill. Woot, finally classes not wanted in DoA can go there with a pug as well.
Funny how no one complains about some classes cut off the endgame, but when they got a skill that makes them even with the rest, oh boy, that is just so wrong.

PS. I tried an UB/Soul Reaping combo, works effective, but it didn't feel uber.
Maybe it gets that with 4-5 players with the skill?
I still prefer to play with regular builds though.
Did FoW some days ago where everyone used own skill bars (no pvx, no UB), took around 4 hours, but we did it.
UW last night ended up with a wipe, since we don't read the wiki so much.
It's more fun getting some surprises to.

Not to forget my constant need to proof every thing can be done without the pvx builds/classes that everyone else thinks is needed.
The main concept for all this skill bar hype is about doing it fast.
You can still do it without, just takes longer.

I think this proofs as well that there is no need to nerf this PvE only skill, since its your own choice what ever you want to use it or not.
Just find some players with your own mindset, its not that hard.

/not signed
Since this gives the classes the community voted as the "bad classes" a chance.

[cebalrai]

Okay, an all-Ursan pvp team... Ping E-denier with half the team *DEAD* in one second. And the other half of the team is still free to be insta-killing someone else.

And 3 seconds later, it all happens again. You going to E-deny eight bears while they kill someone on your team every 2 seconds on average?

[darkdreamr]

This is becoming a debacle, which is sad. Why?

Because as a mesmer, I have never (and would never have) had the chance to do Deep, Urgoz, or DoA. Sure, the occasional alliance run, but if you're looking for a req 9 zodiac staff of the right attribute it's gonna take more runs than that.

It's funny, because those of us who don't play war/monk/ele actually end up (I believe) being the most creative with our builds, since we are the classes that have to prove our effectiveness. When that fails, I revert to playing a gimped SS, or a FC fire nuker. I have done most of the game with heroes and henchmen. I never use pvxwiki and as a mesmer I probably know more about every class' skills than most people. And yet I am the exact person who benefits the most from UB.

I guess my point is, stop making a big deal out of this. If you are like me and you love poring over every skill coming up with neat builds, you will continue to do so. If you hate doing that and load up cookie cutters, you will probably continue to do so also. The only difference is that now I can do the areas which I couldn't do before. And it's sad because I know this is gonna be nerfed and there goes my shot at a tormented weapon.

Why couldn't you guys pick the Junundu? They're massively overpowered and farming SS/LB was "dumbed down" an extreme amount. Siege Devourers are already gone. After Junundu and UB are nerfed, everything will be as it should be. With Warriors, Elementalists, and Monks back on top.

[TGgold]

Originally Posted by cebalrai

Okay, an all-Ursan pvp team... Ping E-denier with half the team *DEAD* in one second. And the other half of the team is still free to be insta-killing someone else.

And 3 seconds later, it all happens again. You going to E-deny eight bears while they kill someone on your team every 2 seconds on average?

Why are we talking about a PvP setting?

[IslandHermet]

Pritty funny how everyone is saying UB is way to good when I was chillin at my friends house watchin him do the Gloom in DOA with UB way and the team got wiped about half way through, ALL UB did is make it so that the people who have never even seen the inside of the elite areas can join a group run in Aggro everything Because they have no clue what to do and no one will explain it. thinking it will be easy with the UB and they wipe the party I have seen it a hundred times.

and if you go to DOA spaming UB way lfg for Foundry (1st Time here) not 1 person will take you, but if you spam UB way lfg for Foundry ppl will take you??? why is that????

[Racthoh]

Originally Posted by darkdreamr

Why couldn't you guys pick the Junundu? They're massively overpowered and farming SS/LB was "dumbed down" an extreme amount. Siege Devourers are already gone. After Junundu and UB are nerfed, everything will be as it should be. With Warriors, Elementalists, and Monks back on top.

I don't see any wurm holes in Gates of Madness or THK, or any area that players generally struggle with. You also get the siege devourer for three areas tops.

[darkdreamr]

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I don't see any wurm holes in Gates of Madness or THK, or any area that players generally struggle with. You also get the siege devourer for three areas tops.

I'm not talking about things that are difficult to do. I never had problems with THK, any of the realm or torment, or anything in PvE for that matter (except vanquishing majesty's rest with h/h). I'm talking about things that are now much easier to do in terms of speed/convenience - junundu made SS/LB farming easy, devourers made charr farming easy, and UB makes the elite missions easy. Sure, I could roll an elementalist and go to DoA, but I don't want to, just like I don't want to farm for sunspear points in Holdings of Chokhin.

[Chthon]

Originally Posted by Karyuu

Why can't those two parties be left alone to play however they wish, without trying to change the other's style of play? If you want tactics, go with tactics. If you want to relax by bashing things, go with bashing. No one's forcing you to group with someone who doesn't share your desires.

I agree. With apologies to every western ever made, this town is big enough for the both of us. Unless and until UB starts to crowd out every other style of play -- something I truly doubt -- I think it should be left well enough alone.

[ChaoticCoyote]

Originally Posted by darkdreamr

After Junundu and UB are nerfed, everything will be as it should be. With Warriors, Elementalists, and Monks back on top.

The problem is that Gaile and company don't play the same game we do. They see everything through rose-colored glasses.

If ANet cared about the "rejected" professions, they would implement full-hero parties so we could play what class we want, how we wnat, without being treated like pariahs.

Look at it this way: Izzy, their primary skill balancer, is an FPS person. He wants fast gameplay. I have no problem with that in PvP, but he wrecks PvE where "balance" has no meaning.

UB is somewhat safe from Izzy, though, since it is a PvE-only skill. Personally, I don't use it, but I can see why people like it.

[cosyfiep]

hey I might stand a chance at getting into some DoA groups now???

[Regulus X]

Originally Posted by IslandHermet

...and if you go to DOA spaming UB way lfg for Foundry (1st Time here) not 1 person will take you, but if you spam UB way lfg for Foundry ppl will take you??? why is that????

Because (1st time here) registers in their mind as as = "inexperienced newb". It's also a very unwise choice to even spam (1st time here). It's wiser to say so in the aftermath (if at all). Or, you could group up and tell the group, "Hey, it's my first time doing this because I do so much of (...) instead, or I'm a huge PvPer, or something else that proves you have good experience in the game. Inform them that you do your homework and read up on areas that you're about to play, using wiki to research monsters and their strengths/weaknesses. If they still deny you, then they are simply too impatient, imprudent and just not worthy of you; you can then start your own group or join up with another team (if available).

[Esan]

So what if Ursan Blessing is sundering the community. Everyone knows sundering sucks.

[Skuld]

You and the mad king should exchange jokes some time

[Jetdoc]

Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote

The problem is that Gaile and company don't play the same game we do. They see everything through rose-colored glasses.

If ANet cared about the "rejected" professions, they would implement full-hero parties so we could play what class we want, how we wnat, without being treated like pariahs.

Sigh...this needs to come up in every thread, eh? I'm surprised that there wasn't a complaint about not being able to use 7 heroes in the Costume Brawl...

Originally Posted by cosyfiep

hey I might stand a chance at getting into some DoA groups now???

Only if you don't play with any of your classes' skills (which kind of defeats the point, eh?).

[Karyuu]

Unfortunately so far all I'm hearing is:

"I don't like that someone out there can use a skill that makes something easier for them."
"I don't like that I'm being kicked out of PUGs for not having that skill, even though those PUGs are crap to start with if they kick for such a reason."
"I don't like that other people are choosing to take the easy way rather than play like I do."
"I don't like that people now have another option for how they tackle certain areas, even though it doesn't affect me."

There are so many posters here who stated that they tried UB and then reverted back to their previous skill sets and tactics - therefore the population of GW is far from being overrun with UB-mad PUGs. If you can't find someone who isn't using UB, keep looking. But try not to throw your arms up and exclaim how it's giving you such a difficult time.

[holababe]

Originally Posted by Free Wind

You haven't bought GWEN? You don't have UB??? - kicked from party

If it stays as it is now, soon, very soon, there will be no barrage/pet teams in ToPK, there will be no balanced in DoA, there will be no SteelWall in the Deep, there will be no EoE + Trappers in Urgoz, there will be no 'random' teams for Titan quests, there will be no "5 men Bonder, MM, SS" teams in SF; any new-next-another mission, master quest, elite area will turn into Ursanway fest

Because it's good that only specific classes and builds can be involved in Elite Areas. At least this way everyone can participate.

Oh and

there will be no balanced in DoA

lol. that's all I have to say to that. lol